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Stephan: we know by Darwin's own admission that he obtained the idea or concept of 'selection' from the Rev. Robert Malthus, Malthusian Population Principle:

"In October 1838, that is, fifteen months after I had begun my systematic enquiry, I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population, and being well prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long-continued observation of the habits of animals and plants, it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The result of this would be the formation of new species. Here, then, I had at last got a theory by which to work" (Charles Darwin, Autobio:120).

That "theory by which to work" was the concept of natural selection.

William Paley said the concept would PREVENT evolutionary change. Darwin said the exact opposite, that it would CAUSE evolutionary change. Darwin's "logic" that destruction results in the formation of new species is false on its face.

"........ it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved,

and unfavourable ones to be destroyed.........." 


http://omgili.com/newsgroups/talk/origins/ed9efa5c-af88-4ecb-a157-1ce1a54c974cp15g2000vblgooglegroupscom.html stevenL wrote: "...And I guess what I was saying was that some creationists take one side of that issue, and other creationists take the other side of that issue; both in their attempts to refute NS. Some of them (e.g. "backspace" on this NG) claim that NS is not testable (for macro-evolution of species) and hence it's not even a legitimate scientific theory....."

I am saying that the concept Darwin had with NS and Natural Preservation(which is what he meant) can in principle not be tested. This concept is:

"In October 1838, that is, fifteen months after I had begun my systematic enquiry, I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population, and being well prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long-continued observation of the habits of animals and plants, it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The result of this would be the formation of new species. Here, then, I had at last got a theory by which to work" (Charles Darwin, Autobio:120).

"...favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones to be destroyed.... Can anybody think of a way to disprove this?


Others (e.g., "Seanpit" on this NG) have claimed that NS is provably false.

Perhaps there are two different kind of creationists: One type attempts to refute NS by logic and semantics, the other type attempts to refute NS by evidence...."

Which depends what concept Ken Ham, Seanpit have with NS. They tend to take the Blyth position ".....unfavourable ones to be destroyed ...." while the Atheist take the flipside an exasperating display of convergent confusion from which different world views are derived.


Links Edit

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.origins/WgpGyPmnXuw


“natural selection” which is, as Darwin wrote in his notebook somewhere aroun 1838: “....simply the doctrine of Malthus applied with manifold force to the whole animal and vegetable kingdoms.....”


http://www9.bangwsd.net/gtfeducation/images/dynamic/file/Books/Morgan/NATURALLY-GOOD1.pdf?1358364942231


In July of l837, Darwin wrote that he “opened his first notebook” to record additional facts bearing on the question, but it was not until he happened to read Malthus’ Essay on Population in October of l838 that he found an explanatory theory from which the above “supposition” followed. “In October l838,” Darwin wrote, “that is fifteen months after I had begun my systematic enquiry, I happened to read for amusement Malthus’ Population, and being well prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence (a phrase used by Malthus) which everywhere goes on from long-continued observation of animals and plants, it at once struck me that under these circumstances favorable variations would tend to be preserved and unfavorable ones to be destroyed. The result of this would be a new species. Here then I had at last got hold of a theory by which to work.”

From this encounter, Darwin commenced the now famous formulation of the principle of “natural selection” which is, as he wrote, “simply the doctrine of Malthus applied with manifold force to the whole animal and vegetable kingdoms.”


Note: ...favorable variations would tend to be preserved and unfavorable ones to be destroyed.... is a rhetorical tautology meaning that any conclusion from such is a non-sequitur. Darwin's premise was that the present attributes were not in the distant past, his mechanism natural selection or natural means of competitive preservation of the favorable attributes is a claim of logic and thus not falsifiable.

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