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http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Talk/talk.origins/2008-01/msg07362.html

Re: Natural selection and favorable traits how were they measured ?

If a cow were meant to produce beer instead of milk would it still be a success ?

Success to whom? And 'meant to produce beer' by whom? Obviously, domesticated cows are "intelligently designed" or, if you prefer, "eugenically produced" by humans to meet human needs and not the needs of the cows themselves. That is, cows are examples of "intelligent design" by "intelligent designers" who want to force cattle into creatures that only exist to serve its needs. Just like some "intelligent agent" who supposedly "intelligently designed" humans to serve only to worship him. No wonder religious imagery in Christianity is filled with images of "sheep". We all know what happens to sheep. They get fleeced and then get led to slaughter.

Do the cows that produce beer have greater reproductive success relative to the ones that produce milk? That is, of course, an empirically determinable question (one answered by actual experiment). It is not an empty philosophical or lexicographical problem determined by blithering idiots who want magical words.

And, if the answer to this empirically determinable question were "Yes, the beer-producers have more offspring relative to the milk- producers (that is the metric of 'success').", then the answer is that those cows that produce beer are 'fitter' than the milk-producers. If the answer were "No, they have fewer offspring (assuming that they survive to reproduce themselves).", then the answer is that the beer- producers are less fit than the milk producers. If the answer were, "There is no significant difference wrt reproductive success between the milk producers and the beer producers", then the traits are selectively neutral and the frequency of the traits will drift to fixation one way or the other, with a probability determined by the current frequency. Assuming, of course, that the local environment remains constant (selective value is contingent and not absolute).- Hide quoted text -

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Ray wrote:

Something a mental patient would say who has snuck into the office and used the computers while the administrators are in the lunch room singing happy birthday to a co-worker.

Howard: Backspace was not asking a real question, he was mocking you, hoping that you would bite and make a fool of yourself. My explanation just above provides an excuse for your "answer".

Ray

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